Curse

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 08, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

My thoughts were:

- 1 Assassin (as I''m one.)
- 1 Eviscerate or Ursan warrior
- 1 SS Necromancer
- 1 SF with Mark of Rodgort.
- 1 PB-Domination Mesmer
- 1 BHA Ranger with Epidemic
- 1 LoD Healer
- 1 Divert Hexes Prot.

With fun way I mean NOT 3 Necro + 3 Para builds...

Please share your thoughts.

~Shiro

payne · Mar 08, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

swap SF for SH - how I did it 4 man from frontier gate...SH works brilliantly with MoR...
mesmer is always nice but have little purpose after the grawl in which a ranger could shut-down on its own....
Put in WoH for LoD better heal on monk AI

just a couple of thoughts...but the trinity of ranger,monk,ele,war works just as well as any 8 man team from ToA :P

UB is NOT FUN

payne

Antithesis · Mar 09, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

I'd probably go with something like this. I'm assuming each of the roles besides the Sin can be played by a Hero if a human is not available -

1. A/W Death Blossum / Moebius with "Save Yourselves!" on the bar. The rest of the party build becomes pretty irrelevant, as long as they can keep you alive.
2. Cruel Spear Paragon instead of the Warrior for ranged Eviscerate, faster target swapping and better agro control. Warrior hero AI is just plain dopey and will end up splashing around in the swamps looking for tadpoles. If a human is available, a god-mode D-slasher or an Earthshaker is the way to go.
3. E/Rt Blindbot Channeler instead of SF. I've found fire damage weak in HM and Ele's are a squishy target. An E/Rt Blindbot Channeler offers great defense, AoE offense, physical buffs and additional conditions (weakness / cracked armor / blind) for Epidemic to spread. An SF is there for one reason only, and that reason is diluted heavily in HM.
4. Hex Eater Vortex or Signet of Illusions Mesmer instead of PB-Dom. I'd only take a Mesmer if hex removal and additional interrupts are of paramount importance. Mesmers are very squishy and a priority target in HM.
5. A Stunning Strike Paragon will use Epidemic more effectively than a BHA/Volley/Epidemic ranger. Paragons have infinite energy and can offer more to the team than just daze and spread. If you need a clutch interrupt, drop Power Return on the bar.
6. N/Rt Minion Bomber / Channeler instead of the SS. Infinite energy, AoE direct and indirect damage, physical buffs and a meatshield...nuff said. A hero SS is almost useless without the energy machine of minions. The physical buffs can be performed by a D/N Arcane Orders, the defense by an E/Rt Blindbot, so an SS is not needed. If a human SS is available, i'd take it instead of the Mesmer.
7. N/Rt Icy Veins Restorer instead of the LoD/WoH Monk. Infinite energy, big heals, AoE damage and condition removal. Why take a Monk when it's job can be performed by a hybrid class that offers both offensive and defensive support?
8. D/N Arcane Orders instead of Divert Hexes Monk. Hex removal isn't critical in PvE. The D/N has infinite energy, big physical buffs and party-wide heals every 2 seconds.

The party offers a nice mix of classes whilst taking advantage of the uberness that is the PvE Paragon and Necro. They're in wide use for good reason...there isn't a single job in your build that couldn't be done more effectively with a Para / Nec counterpart or replacement.

Terraban · Mar 13, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I'd probably go with something like this. I'm assuming each of the roles besides the Sin can be played by a Hero if a human is not available -

1. A/W Death Blossum / Moebius with "Save Yourselves!" on the bar. The rest of the party build becomes pretty irrelevant, as long as they can keep you alive.
2. Cruel Spear Paragon instead of the Warrior for ranged Eviscerate, faster target swapping and better agro control. Warrior hero AI is just plain dopey and will end up splashing around in the swamps looking for tadpoles. If a human is available, a god-mode D-slasher or an Earthshaker is the way to go.
3. E/Rt Blindbot Channeler instead of SF. I've found fire damage weak in HM and Ele's are a squishy target. An E/Rt Blindbot Channeler offers great defense, AoE offense, physical buffs and additional conditions (weakness / cracked armor / blind) for Epidemic to spread. An SF is there for one reason only, and that reason is diluted heavily in HM.
4. Hex Eater Vortex or Signet of Illusions Mesmer instead of PB-Dom. I'd only take a Mesmer if hex removal and additional interrupts are of paramount importance. Mesmers are very squishy and a priority target in HM.
5. A Stunning Strike Paragon will use Epidemic more effectively than a BHA/Volley/Epidemic ranger. Paragons have infinite energy and can offer more to the team than just daze and spread. If you need a clutch interrupt, drop Power Return on the bar.
6. N/Rt Minion Bomber / Channeler instead of the SS. Infinite energy, AoE direct and indirect damage, physical buffs and a meatshield...nuff said. A hero SS is almost useless without the energy machine of minions. The physical buffs can be performed by a D/N Arcane Orders, the defense by an E/Rt Blindbot, so an SS is not needed. If a human SS is available, i'd take it instead of the Mesmer.
7. N/Rt Icy Veins Restorer instead of the LoD/WoH Monk. Infinite energy, big heals, AoE damage and condition removal. Why take a Monk when it's job can be performed by a hybrid class that offers both offensive and defensive support?
8. D/N Arcane Orders instead of Divert Hexes Monk. Hex removal isn't critical in PvE. The D/N has infinite energy, big physical buffs and party-wide heals every 2 seconds.

The party offers a nice mix of classes whilst taking advantage of the uberness that is the PvE Paragon and Necro. They're in wide use for good reason...there isn't a single job in your build that couldn't be done more effectively with a Para / Nec counterpart or replacement.

One healer? Hmm

Antithesis · Mar 13, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

One healer? Hmm

Two. Count again.

Terraban · Mar 13, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I still only see one....unless you want to really stretch it and consider the Orders dervish a healer.

Antithesis · Mar 13, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

I still only see one....unless you want to really stretch it and consider the Orders dervish a healer.

Bingo. Mystic Healing and Dwayna's Touch were healing spells last i checked. Both of them have 2 sec recharges, Mystic Healing hits 6 of 8 party members for 53 health, Dwayna's hits a single target for 150...how is that not considered a viable support healer to the N/Rt? It makes the red bars go up AND buffs the physicals. I'll take the two-for-one deal any day. And we're talking about a full party of 8 Vanq'ing 6 and 4-man zones...why do you need more healing for that?

I usually run Rac's + Sab's (or variants of) on two accounts in HM Vanquishing with a God-mode Paragon or Warrior - i'm the only player (logout one a/c) so that makes me + 6 heroes for a party size of 7. I don't take any additional healing or prot, it's not needed because the build is incredibly offensive and resilient. There are at least 2 slots on every bar that can be used to hybridise or adjust any character for either offensive or defensive roles. If you absolutely need more healing, put it on the MM or slot Motivation echo's on the Paragon/s. If you need more prot, drop Aegis and Protective Spirit onto the MM and swap Cruel Spear for Defensive Anthem. A Monk is not needed, even in a party of 7...handy yes, needed no.

The only two characters i'd realistically consider taking from the OP are the BHA and the SS if powered by a MM. The rest is bleh...

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 13, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Uh, Anthithesis, your two account use cannot be used in a Caravan-vanquish. I read somewhere that the heroes disappear when you enter another area. Thus, your thing is ungrounded.
I like Racthoh's (spelled right!) build, and have a lil' hate against the use of Necromancers now.

~Shiro ^^.

Antithesis · Mar 13, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

You're right - you can't Vanquish multiple zones consecutively with 1 human + 6 heroes. If zoning is required, you do lose the Heroes. That's not what i'm suggesting in your case, it's just how i like to play the game. I mentioned it only to demonstrate that you don't need a monk in a Vanq'ing party.

Whether you believe i use it or not is of no consequence to me - i do it, i have fun doing it, try it yourself if you need proof. Don't be so quick to dismiss it as 'ungrounded'...just because you haven't done it, doesn't mean it can't be done. For your own education (given you haven't tried), here's how to do it -

Vanq'ing is done one zone at a time - if i need to zone to get to a non-vanquished area, i'll Vanq the zone leading to it, then simply go to the nearest outpost, run through the Vanq'd zone, go through the portal, drop the second player and Vanq that zone....rinse and repeat. I definitely wouldn't bother Vanq'ing from ToA to the Eastern Frontier with two accounts, that'd be a huge pain in the arse just to have a full party (which isn't needed)...i'd clear the Black Curtain with 7, head back to ToA, run to Cursed Lands, clear with 7, then head out from Beetletun or Bergen with a party of 5.

Realistically, do you expect someone else to Vanquish 20 zones with you in one session so you get your party of 8 from ToA to the Eastern Frontier?!? Even over multiple sessions, it's a drag and a waste of time to have to go back to ToA then run in HM with speed-buffed foes in hot pursuit to whatever zone you want to Vanq this session. Be sure to avoid outposts and missions - as soon as you hit one, you lose your party of 8 and need to run all the way back from ToA. And good luck clearing your bags - there are very few in-zone merchants, so you'll need to run all the way back from ToA again whenever you need to dump merchfood.

But that's off topic and has nothing to do with the build suggestion, which is for at least two active humans. You've suggested a Sin and an Ursan Warrior, leading me to believe two humans are needed, particularly if caravaning is required. You've posted in the Heroes & AI forum, so you're not after a party build for 8 humans. Heroes only follow their master, so to take advantage of a full party of 8 from ToA, both players need to participate. Otherwise you need to log one player out to get the other player's heroes to follow and yes, you will lose them on zoning and the other player won't get credit for the Vanq.

The build i've suggested isn't what i'd personally use in a Vanquishing party. I have suggested straight slot for slot swaps to fill the same role in your build eg Cruel Spear P for Eviscerate W, Blindbot for SF etc. Every build has been tested on a hero and can hold its own in HM. If i was vanquishing with another person, i'd go with a God Mode D-Slash W/P(me) or preferably God-Mode P/W, Stunning Strike P, Defensive Anthem P, SS N/Rt (second player), Restoration N/Rt, Restoration N/Rt or WoH Mo, Minion Bomber N/Mo, and an Arcane Orders D/N or Spiritual Orders N/Rt. But that'd potentially make 3xP and 5xN, which is exactly what you don't want

So I've offered alternatives to some of the P's and N's because you don't want a party full of them.

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 14, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

That's right. What you say about your theory being 'ungrounded', it's not what I meant. What I've posted was caravaning, not using 1 player + 6 heroes.. That's why.

~shiro

Antithesis · Mar 14, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

No problems. And I'm not disrespecting your build, it'd probably work, but there are more effective options. Unfortunately, Necros and Paragons figure heavily in most of them

Racthoh · Mar 15, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

In the time it takes you run back there you probably could've vanquished those areas with 4. Why bother, where is the fun?

angmar_nite · Mar 15, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Well if you vanquish everything along the way it'll be worth it I guess.

Antithesis · Mar 15, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Well if you vanquish everything along the way it'll be worth it I guess.

Have you counted the zones? It's seriously about 20...who has a whole day to spare just to Vanq 4-man zones with a full party?

Interesting idea, but an impractical, time-consuming and unrewarding reality.

Enko · Mar 15, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Have you counted the zones? It's seriously about 20...who has a whole day to spare just to Vanq 4-man zones with a full party?

Interesting idea, but an impractical, time-consuming and unrewarding reality.

i just used heroes and henchies when i did that and left my character in a zone somewhere when i slept.

Antithesis · Mar 16, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enko

i just used heroes and henchies when i did that and left my character in a zone somewhere when i slept.

That's workable given you're H/H. If two humans are involved it's a big effort.

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 17, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I'd like to 'lend' your heroes once, Anthithesis. 1 D/N + 2 Paragons that is.
Hum, IDK when I'll be vanquishing but we'll see.

~Shiro

Adriaanz#Shiro · Mar 17, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

By the way, let's discuss my own build now.
I came up with the following

A/W
Critical Strikes: 12+1+1
Hammer Mastery: 12
Shadow Arts: 3+2

-Earth Shaker
-"For Great Justice!"
-Crushing Blow
-Whirlwind Attack
-"Save Yourselves!"
-Critical Agility
-Way of Perfection
-Ressurection Signet

Any thoughts? ^^

~Shiro

Antithesis · Mar 17, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Cute bar. I see why you want a caravan.

Super Igor · Mar 18, 2008, 12:10 PM // 12:10

URF SHAKUUUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one